Reloacting from Ireland to this general area.

Hi Brendan,

Your plan to visit the area is a good one and something everyone on the forum will recommend. When you do make it out the areas of San Pedro del Pinatar and Los Alcázares are worth a visit, both have promenades and a variety of amenities with the all important bars and restaurants. IMO both offer the most activity all year round and therefore more suitable for full time residency. There is more English speaking people in both of these towns with a bigger majority of expats living here permanently. Neither are too ‘touristy’ in the sense of Benidorm however everywhere along the Mar Menor is busy from late June through to the end of August, that’s just the way it is. We are in Santiago de la Ribera which we adore but it’s small and very quiet out of season and mainly Spanish.

Have a look at websites, Kyero and idealista.com (simple google search will find them). They have a huge amount of properties and the good thing is idealist mostly have the street name so you can see on the map how far from the prom, amenities etc the advertised property is.

San Pedro del Pinatar all the way down to Los Alcázares is flat so easy for walking and cycling. This area experienced some pretty bad freak flooding in the last 2/3 years, something to keep in mind when looking at properties.
Right now I wouldn’t worry too much about solicitors, community fees etc.....all of this will come when you have chosen your property....you will need to set aside around 10% of your purchase price to cover buying costs...so out of your 120k budget set aside 12/15k just to make sure......once you find your retirement home you will find a solicitor in that area who will answer all of your questions....

I hope this answers some of your questions.....Good luck with your search...

Hi Brendan,

The most important point is:

You know this aera just because of someone told you about:

Your friend should be google maps….search Isla Plana

You locked in with San Pedro del Pinatar look it up…. the distance….

1.  Come and visit this aera, drive around, take your time to search.

2.  Make a checklist: What is important to YOU (Hobbies, are you like to cook/BBQ or more take away, Restaurants)

3.  Housing: Appartement > normally in a complex with service fees (We pay 444€ a year incl. gym, pool, maintenance (cleaning of outside “landing” daily) I heard that other complex have a monthly fee of € 100+

Or would you like to have a “house”…..

When we searched for a Holliday home we experienced:

Houses:

….the rooms are so small that you have to go outside when the sun shines in (feels overcrowded)

….illegal conversions of rooms (part of the garage was made to an on-suite bedroom – so no parking for the car)

…waiting in a pub for the keys for the next house: it was a “set/stage” of “EastEnders” incl. the actors.

In some of the “developments” the houses are brilliant & cheap, BUT you face the situation that these houses have NO building permission.

If this “lockdown” is lifted come and look for yourself.

Go to google map and check out the aera (it’s big)

Look out in this forum the different topics I hope that you will find some eye-opener.

I do not want to be negative but I am what I am and I do not know you…

Isla Plana is the best place! You could get an apartment for your budget on the hills, it's very quiet in the winter and not overcrowded in the summer. Typical problems with communities as it is everywhere (non payers etc.) Don't think so you could find detached property with no communal fees within your budget but who knows what happens next year? Get solicitor and ask all legal requirements and all questions ( extra taxes and fees buying the property,  general fees ,taxes and such), probably it's the best way to start with. Plenty general info online as well. Bear in mind all property prices listed no IVA (VAT) included.

Isla Plana in very close proximity to Puerto de Mazarron where all main facilities you can find but: very good farmacy in Isla Plana, hardware shop, supermarket,  couple cafes and restaurants. No language problem, more or less they're speak English. A lot of British or Irish around, plenty Scandinavians speaking English but not so sure about socialising with them...

The beach is very nice. Plenty walking around but the car is advisable. 20min drive to Cartagena if you need to.  Corvera Airport ( Murcia International) about 50min away. Alicante Airport hour and half drive . Some bus service but no clue how it works here.. Easy get a taxi from the Port. 

Regarding your property ,,requirements " no one could advise you what you want better than yourself,  just look around when you can and make your mind up especially if you never been here.

Hi, thank you so much for your reply..I appreciate it..and of course it is helpful.

A few points you raised ..(1) Vat not included..so Vat (IVA) must be added to final price?What rate is this?

You also mentioned.. " Typical problems with communities as it is everywhere (non payers etc.) " Sorry for my ignorance..but what exactly does this refer to..no payment of?

Another thing: "Don't think so you could find detached property with no communal fees within your budget but who knows what happens next year?"

  My question..does communal fees only apply to a property with a certain valuation? I may be reading your message wrong..but your information suggest that if my property would have a higher valuation that it would be exempt..my understanding of communial fees is that they are for the upkeep usually of a complex and for the upkeep of the common areas of such,and therefor all would pay a fee..and the same fee.

I am not honestly giving out or criticising..lol..just wanting to know and learn. 

A person I know just by casual on line contact (cant say a friend) lives in the Isla Plans area..I think a place called Costa de Lido..do you know..and I glad you mentioned Isla Plana..because it was to be my starting point..but as you understand all I can do now is try and research areas on line in the hope I will have my homework done if this virus every leaves us alone and I can make a trip as I will.

Just a after thought..you mentioned Solicitors ..any name/names you could pass on in this regards,because a good honest Solicitor is a must..Ime not implying that there is crooked Solicitors..but there is?

I much appreciate you taking the time to reply..and for your information..I really appreciate it..and I have got quite a few replies and all are benifical. I hope I might be able to contact you again if I required further info..without hopefully bothering you to much.Regards Brendan.

Typical add ons on the purchase price is about but not limited to 12% . Max 15%.

For yours mentioned budget it would be hard to buy the property in this area which is not in the smaller or bigger urbanisation thus community fees: communal pools, areas, garage etc. Community fees is not exempt regarding the value or any other circumstances.  Since you in thats it. Fees is not that straightforward buy it's still quite simple thing but depends how well community is managed. If you buying in one, get this info from community President, not from the agent. Sometimes you need to be persistent including with all fees. Buy the way you need to start from NIE, an identification number following the Spanish bank account as you might need to pay the taxes. Plenty topics here if you use the search.

I think IVA different for new build  and second hand property but tbh I don't know for sure, can't even remember how much I paid myself!

Regarding Solicitor- when you will narrow your search spectrum there's will be some good Solicitor around. Won't be hard to get one recommended operating to that area. 

For time being just forget ,,best new friends " online and  dig in to your own research: Rightmove working in Spain as well or Think Spain, Idealista  and similar property websites. Gives you an idea what your money can buy here.

Hi Brendan

My advice is to rent a property in the busy summer season and the much quieter winter season then decide on your location and purchase I have a holiday home in the San Pedro area this is still a Spanish working town so basically the same all year the costal area of Lo Pagan and El Mojon very busy in summer really quiet in winter but I enjoy them in both seasons Kings  Real Estate in El Mojon  English speaking are very informative 

Good Luck 

I don't know the area, but hopefully can help with the costs:

If you buy a new build property, then you pay IVA at 10%, plus approx. 1.5% Stamp Duty. If you buy a re-sale property, then you pay Property Transfer Tax, which in Murcia is 8%.

Including the above, as others have advised, you should allow approx. 13% of the purchase value for all your fees (probably a little more if you are getting a mortgage - and if you need a mortgage, you will need at least a 30% deposit, depending on the bank, the property and your financial position). So, with your top budget of €120k, you should aim for a purchase price of no more than €105k as the rest will be spent on fees.

Community fees wouldn't really be classed as purchase costs - they are maintenance fees payable monthly or annually for the upkeep of the urbanisation / development, if you live on one - pools, gardens, roads, security, etc. I expect that the "detached property with no communal fees wthin your budget, but who knows what happens next year" comment refers to the fact that if you buy an individual propoerty not in a development, then you would have no such fees, but that in your stated budget that is unlikely. And then that prices may change in the furture - the impact of Brexit may make moving to Spain less attractive for some people, leading to a reduction in sale prices? The non-paymer issue is that some residents / holiday home owners don't pay their fees, which means that the overall maintenance is not delivered as planned, so everyone suffers.

As others have said, take your time in research & visits to ensure you make a fully informed decision...

Hi Brendan

I live in San Pedro del Pinatar. I currently don't have a car, and walk everywhere, be it shopping, socialization or just a walk. I would recommend you speak to Danny from Paramount Property. He is from the area and will help you with any questions about property and areas.  Definitely do your research.

Lorraine

Hi Brendan,  There is lots of good advice from other forum members here but one thing you may not understand is the term IVA (referred to by Rich T) - it means VAT.  He provided very good information.

Maybe I missed it but did you say you are planning to retire here or just own a holiday property?  Be aware that if you plan to become a resident here the Spanish taxes are higher than what you will pay in your own country and you will be liable for all assets worldwide including pensions, savings, property etc. etc.  If you are not planning to live here permanently the advice we were given was to remain a non resident for that reason.  

However, if you are not planning on residency do check out the 90 day Schengen regulation.  I won't even begin to get into it as it is quite complicated but until Brexit happened the Spanish authorities turned a blind eye to pretty much everyone like ourselves who  owned second properties here and basically you could come and go as you pleased.  The situation is a bit murky now because of Brexit. They may or may not start checking how long your are here but if you stay longer (even a day longer apparently) than 90 days in any 183 days and they find out you are still here you will be regarded as a resident and will have to pay Tax. and probably fines as well, hefty fines too.  That's the worst case scenario and as an EU citizen you will have freedom of movement anyway.  It's a wait and see situation.  Nobody seems to know for sure what the authorities may do.  My own humble opinion is that they will allow people like us  snowbirds come and go like before, after all they spend plenty of money locally and local business owners would be none too pleased but that's only my opinion.  Best to check it out if it affects you and there is loads of information available about this on the Net and elsewhere.

Having said all that, life here is wonderful on so many fronts so don't be put off by any negativity. The people are really nice and friendly and very helpful and English is widely understood.

 Obviously the climate is wonderful but bear in mind it does get cold in the evenings even on the sunniest days.  I understand the rainfall here is only 12" annually but I think the whole of that fell in just three days this month!  Climate change manifesting itself.  That said, it really doesn't rain much at all and yes, another member on the forum referred to some very bad storms in recent years with many properties flooded so do ask the question about that when you find a house/property  you might like to buy - insurance companies are good sources of information on that front.  July is the hottest month and August wouldn't be far behind but Spring, autumn and winter are really pleasant.   As an aside, when it does rain there are two things to be aware of.  One, it doesn't rain, it pours, really really heavy but it doesn't usually last long.  Two, its a very dirty rain, quite mucky in fact.  Your car will be destroyed but the good news is you can wash it for 3/4Euro.  Not always, the recent rain was clean but we have had the mucky rain experience.  Don't know what causes it, sand from Africa maybe but you will spend time cleaning up outside furniture etc. when it happens. 

We bought a house with no heating or air con so we had to put that in and we are very happy we did that - you may not need it often but when you do you really must have it.  You may be lucky and find a place with it installed and modern air con systems run more efficiently than before on the heating setting.  We also put in a pellet burner and find it both efficient and economical.  Around 2K will get you a good one for a house of the value you mentioned.

You mentioned walking - there are many areas you can avail of here and many cycle routes as well. |We are in San Pedro del Pinatar and currently the whole promenade is being upgraded.  It was really lovely before they undertook this work so I can't wait to see what it will be like when they finish. You can walk by the sea all the way to Santiago de la Ribera and further to Los Alcazares, lovely wide promenade too.

There are many cities of interest, Murcia, Cartagena, Lorca - all within an easy drive.  We are only here less than a year and because of Covid we haven't had many opportunities to explore  other areas so I can't help much with that.  

Typically you will get more bang for your buck if you locate outside the coastal areas.  One town that comes to mind is Sucina, about a 15/20 min. drive from San Pedro - it's nice, small but tcompactly so and there is a good ex pat community there and English wouldn't be a problem.  You may want the sea though and I only mention it in case you find it difficult to get a place that suits you near the coast.  I don't know what the story is with mosquitos in the rural towns either but I didn't find them a problem so far in San Pedro. There are many pig processing plants in Spain and check for smells from them as well just in case.  Flies are another problem in rural areas and there is a huge agriculture industry here so put that one on your list.  I only mention Sucina because I've been there but there are many other really nice rural towns and villages not too far from the coast that you could think about.

Cost of living is cheaper.  If you drive fuel is typically less than a Euro per litre.  There are hardly any parking charges unless you use an official car park.  One thing I was blown away with was the fact that they don't charge for siesta time in places where there are fees - can you imagine that happening in Ireland?  But, in any case, there is ample car parking apart from the tourist season and you might prefer to leave the car at home then anyway. 

There is a good bus service connecting the nearby towns as well but everything you need can be found within walking distance in San P.  Food is probably a little less than supermarkets in Ireland but there wouldn't be a huge difference.  Electricity is reputed to be the most expensive in Europe I've been told and on this Forum I see many people referring to it. I'd say its about the same as Ireland which, as you know, is very expensive too.  Eating out is definitely cheaper.  There is no piped gas supply - its gas tanks here. Water charges are very low too and it includes refuse.  

We found plenty of eateries but not that many upmarket restaurants, just three that I've been to but the other eateries are quite good and there are a few gems worth going back to, smaller places with maybe two people but great imagination and flair.  I don't know your culinary tastes but there are plenty of options nearby, in Santiago de la Ribera (you can walk to there on the sea front from San P.), also in Pilar de la Horadado, it's a lovely town less than 15 minutes drive away in the opposite direction along the coast or you could cycle either. 

If you feel like something more urban, Torrevieja is not too far and again there would be a bus service.  They have the La Zenia Boulevard, a pretty large shopping centre and there are some really good Irish pubs there - Paddy's Point is very nice and the food there is very good fare.  Beside it there are one or two others I haven't been to.   It's a bit too big for our taste though but it might suit you. 

There is another Irish pub in San Pedro, McLoughlins but it hasn't been open since we got here.  It used to be called Fitzgeralds but I noticed it has changed name so not sure if it's the same owners or what the story is.  Beside it is a really nice pub called Estrella (the daughter's name not the beer!)).  It is Spanish owned (mother and daughter, lovely people) and the mother cooks really lovely food.  Inside you would think you were in a nice Irish/English pub with a very attractive bar, Tiffany lamps over it and really nicely finished - it's a good bit back from the sea front and I think it's mainly Spanish or ex pats that frequent it.  Enough about pubs.  But before I finish, the hotel just up from Estralla, The Trañia has a lovely roof top bar area with dancing and music in the summer months.  It tends to attract an older cohort and there are magnificant views from there as well. 

Now that I've entertained you with food and drink lets get back to basics.  You will have to pay Property Tax like at home but it's not that high, depends on the value of your property. I can't remember what I paid last year but it was a lot cheaper than where we used to be previously in North East Spain.  Also there is a non resident tax if you are not planning to become a resident &  again, it's not a fortune (many believe this to be an illegal tax but you still must pay it and defaults incur hefty penalties).  

We use MAM solicitors in San Xavier, not far either, and they will fill you in on everything you need to know and they don't charge a fortune. Make a list of all your questions before you go and make the most use of your time there.  Ask about Health insurance while you're at it - we are not residents so I don't know the ins and outs of that. I'm sure there are other very good solicitors in San Pedro as well.  We used Zafiro for our house purchase and found him very honest and very helpful.  Again, I am sure there are other very good ones as well.

I'd better stop or this will become a book but if you need any further information and if I can help don't hesitate to get back to me.  I do hope I haven't said anything to put you off because it really is a wonderful place to live, a stress free easy going environment with the all important great weather that we all miss at home.  Best of luck, you are doing the right thing - ask plenty of questions and get a good feel of the area before making any final decision.  The forum members on here are great with providing help always.  Cheers for now.