UK Gov update on buying or renting properties in Spain, post Brexit. - Page 2

A nice, well balanced and thoughtful response, Oadby.

We did many indepth researches into every aspect of relocating here. Came for the winter season for 5 years to get a taste of real life first.   Accepted that once we sold in the UK and bought here we had, as they say, 'burnt our bridges' due to the vagaries of the Spanish housing market. 

With our experience and gained knowledge, we knew the move would be permanent.   That there would be the usual 'bridges to cross' on the way to residency (as there is any country, even in Spain pre-Brexit) and making sure our lives would be secure.

As you say, as retirees not seeking employment we did not have to face the difficulties of the employment market.  Which, here in Spain (Greece etc.,) have always been mainly centered around seasonal work.

I think the biggest difference for retirees wanting to relocate here is the amount of income required for residency.  But they do still have options.

1)  Using the 90 days in and out to the best advantage.                                 Come for say the winter months.  UK for 90 days.  Then use the next 90day allowance wisely, ensuring your last summer visit ends 90 days before you want to come for the winter.   So that gives you a 50% life in Spain.  And no worries about housing market values!  It can be the best of both worlds for many.   (This is what we did for 5 years first.)

2)  Increase the pension income by not selling in the UK but renting out on a long term rental basis.   If that amount of income, added to your pension, would lift you into the right income bracket.

3)  The UK & Spain will, I am reasonably sure, agree on the long-held driving licence exchange agreement.  Whereby you can simply swap your UK licence for a Spanish one.   But hubby & I decided we would enjoy the experience we would gain from studying and taking the Spanish test.

One quirk that made us smile (before I stop babbling)  If there is a peleton of bikes they are recognised as one vehicle from the first leading to the last straggler.   So if that first bike gets in front, especially at a round-a-bout, you have to give way until the rest of the peleton has passed by :>))

I should perhaps qualify my previous post: we moved when just pensioners, with a bit more energy than we now have. I had studied Spanish for a couple of years before the move and although I will never be fluent have managed most of the time, and although the spanish bureaucracy still frustrates I can fight my way through it. Not being able to discuss medical matters fluently is and always will be a problem - this was highlighted when my other half - who has never managed the language - fell over when out on her own shopping. She had broken her nose and was shocked and although eventually someone stopped and got her some help, being whipped off to hospital and left alone with no English speakers until I could get there has affected her. If I was to die here she simply could not cope.

With very little being made easier (although Los Alcazares council is certainly getting more accomodating of foreigners) what I am saying is that it is even more important these days to do a real plus/minus list for your reasons to move to Spain, and get the blinkers off. It is very different living here than getting on a plane for a few weeks sun.

I have to wonder how bad their lives are in the UK!

Incidentally, re Anne's "Increase the pension income by not selling in the UK but renting out on a long term rental basis.  If that amount of income, added to your pension, would lift you into the right income bracket. " - you will be taxed on the property as an asset worth over €50,000 and fined if you don't declare it on Form 720, and taxed on the rental income. “PENALTY: The failure to submit the informative tax form 720 will be considered a law infringement and the corresponding sanctions will be applied. The minimum sanction will be 10.000 Euros if you don't submit one of the assets and 30.000 Euros if you don't submit any asset above described.”

Unfortunately Brexit looks like it has made things much harder for UK citizens moving to an EU country now.I don't think the negative implications  were made clear before people voted. Maybe as time goes on Spain and UK can come to an arrangement re the 90 day limit which would ease that problem. I'm sure plenty would still like to retire to Spain, bit the financial criteria seems way out of scope.

Again, Peter, I really am sorry about your issues.   Especially with the lack of medical translators in hospitals.  I believe the city hospitals do employ translators.  It's the smaller, out in the sticks, ones that rely on patients to bring their own.  

I once had to go to the hospital following a foot injury.  But I was able to use the Google Translator on my phone.  Can your wife do this?   Or have a translator she can ring who can relate both sides over the phone perhaps?   We have someone we can call now. 

I always wondered why ppl gave up or had difficulty with learning spanish.  It took us 2 years hard work to learn French to a basic level but I can see learning spanish will take us longer.   For those reading and thinking you mean it's NOT only me finding it hard - yes, you are not alone!  An example of the problem is the   'To Have' verb.  There are 2 of them for a start!

English - all pronouns (I, you, him etc.,)  English uses 'have ' has' and 'had'

Spanish actually has 2 verbs 'to have' and every pronoun has a different spelling and pronunciation.  So instead of just 3 words covering everything there are 15 x 3 = 45 words to learn in conjugations to be able to speak basic spanish!!   (there are also 2 verbs for 'I am' -SER & ESTAR with the same difficulties!)   Also spanish is the second fastest spoken language in the world.  So you learn to speak some spanish but it takes longer to actually understand what is being said to you!

Sounds like you have your house on the market and need to go back to the UK.   If so I do hope that you get a sale this year and you can both return very soon.

To make a move back to the UK we would need to find a way to reduce the losses through estate agent robbery - 5% commission is simply exorbitant when combined with a plunging property market.

Re the translation problems, it is a very different thing using an app to communicate in a shop, and wanting support and comfort after being rushed into A&E by ambulance. My wife does not use a smartphone. Hospital Universitario Los Arcos is hardly an “out in the sticks” facility.

Hi Gerry,

It certainly can't be argued that - at present - things can be trickier for ppl to move to Spain.  Especially for retirees totally reliant on their miniscule pensions (UK pays least pension amount than most EU countries - which is outrageous!)

Perhaps some did vote Brexit without realising the full implications it might have on those wishing to retire in the EU.  But this probably represents only a very tiny percentage (less than 1 percent) of the entire UK population of millions.

Very briefly....Brexit was about the health, wealth and independence of an entire country.  The failing NHS/GPs for lack of funding.  Thousands of miles of roads in a state of utter disrepair etc.,  and the anger that while this was happening the UK was paying billions of pounds to the EU.  The inability to make independent laws and take fiscal decisions that would benefit the entire UK etc,. etc,.   It was about the tens of millions of Brits who live in their homeland and what they wanted.  All decided by a democractic election. 

It was never about a small percentage of Brits who live in the EU or elsewhere, sorry.   So as I see it, those people who voted Brexit voted with their country in mind.

Hubby & I respect them and the democractic process.  And lets face it, the UK is now thriving despite Brexit and Covid.   For the sake of all our UK friends and love ones, I am happy about that.  And should we ever decide to return to the UK we will appreciate it even more!

Your frustration and anguish comes across in all your postings, Peter.

Using a phone translator (the hospital will actually ring the number if you have one (a neighbour went and had to use this service whilst waiting for his wife to come) and found it better than nothing!   Also gives you a little peace of mind that something is being done whilst you get there yourself.

It was just a helpful comment, Peter.  Please don't bite the messenger.

Thanks Anne really appreciate the comment.

I assume from your statement regarding Driving Licence, that you have both mastered Spanish to a degree, or you could have simply exchanged you licence, not you have both UK and Spanish.

Peter

They are problems in all these situations, it is both bureaucracy and discrimination ( and maybe a bit of laziness thrown in) and I will give an example I think it happens everywhere but this is Spanish story.

There was a problem with a water course that flooded the house, so off to the council, my cousin (male and house owner) started dealing with the official with a splattering of Spanish.  From what I was told the officials told him that it was not the councils responsibility. 

At the same time there was a conversation in Spanish going on between the council staff, to the effect that they were silly English and just put them off they know no better.  Things changed once my cousin his wife started having heard the conversation, my cousin came to Spain and met and married an English woman who had come to Spain with the family in the 60's, she had married a Spanish lad and was by the 1990's of course fluent.

You state you wonder how bad lives in the UK are, Life goes on and you refer to live being bad, life is what you make of it, you could have address the question positively.

Contray to the views I have heard by English immigrants to Spain from the UK, who often bring down the country of their wealth, and a lot of people are dissatisfied with their lives. I think the austerity of the 2010's with the extra trillion of debt while reducing the economic output of the country really made life for a lot of people worse than before and (as it is relevant as you mentioned Brexit before) created the dissatisfaction that allowed the UK (IMHO) to vote to leave the EU. And in Anne post she lists things that effected voters, the cost of membership was great but the combined costs of trading with the EU now will not be far different, paid for by British business. So now (covid) the UK has an extra trillion of debt in round terms, increased from approximately 1/5 a trillion on 2009 after the credit crunch to 2.5 now in round terms, but other countries also have their problems.  

I do not see a thriving UK like Anne says the full effects of leaving are still a long way off, we have not even started checking imports properly.

We now want to trade with the Pacific region, an area as far away from the UK as you can get.  We were told a lot of untruths, I see trying to enter all these international market where the UK can now trade on their terms (ie not EU) like Aldi and Lidl entering the UK market you have to displace the other players, and you have to offer more be it, price quality or what ever, and even then the existing players are not going to let you have their market easily, it took the 2008 credit crunch to move these continental supermarket into the main stream after 20 years of being in the UK.

I live in a small market town, it has not more problems than most places in this day and age, less than most.  I have pleasant Summers, not so hot I cannot do anything during Sunshine hours.   This winter has been OK, but we are a lot further North so when I would have normally been in Spain I have been here, definitely not as good as normal Spain, but this year Spain was not normal.

I am retired as you are aware and I am pleased that I am, life is harder than in the days I worked, little job security luckily all of my family have jobs, some doing extremely well other doing ok.

Had both vaccines before I would have got them in Spain and with the decision to do 11 weeks apart was well protected much sooner.

SELLING UP

As for the 5% estate agent fees.  They're all now desperate for business and maybe you can negotiate hard and use the threat of using some other agency??   It's what we would do. 

Good luck, Peter.   Hope Yorkshire will be seeing you both soon.

The UK advice has changed again

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-buy-property-in-spain?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_source=3e1b2b87-b4b7-40a0-8c5d-51653f7c6c5a&utm_content=daily#check-property-location-prior-to-purchase