Are the EU negotiators a bunch of bullies - Page 11

I agree to the comments regards democracy and also want a No Deal, but whether in or out, why hurt the German & French people who are working hard to make a living...?

I can understand how you feel but that really is Nationalism.

We knew the EU’s stance a long time back, it’s our Politicians that we need to give a good kick up the backside, especially those who have done their best to undermine democracy.

Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, John Major & the Labour brothers should be sent to the Tower!

frequent flyer, 

Please don't broadcast fake news on this website. For your information, Ireland rejected the 1st Lisbon Treaty referendum because they didn't like the contents. They went back, renegotiated with the EU and got a number of derogations added to the treaty. They then voted on the revised treaty and accepted it. That's democracy at work. 

There is no shame in asking the people again, now that they are more aware of the consequences. After all T May called the last election early in case people had changed their minds since the previous one. 

Anyway, please don't keep repeating this lie about the Irish and referendums. It has joined the straight bananas in folklore at this stage!! 

The EU got the Irish to dance the Okay Kokay ..with democracy until the out come was acceptable to the EU which ever way you want to look at it the southern Irish are no longer in control of southern Ireland  ...the EU had the southern Irish over a barrel as they were bank rupt... the UK is a extremely wealthy country a totally different scenario entirely  ...not fake news.

Sean 95.
Please elaborate.
What exactly were the changes made to the treaty?
Let's assume there were some legitimate changes, why was the second vote binding?
How is that democracy?
The only time the EU Mafia accept a 'result' is when it goes their way. 
If there is to be a second EU referendum then there must be infinite referendums.
The only reason Brexit is a shambles is because the dictators in Westminster won't carry out the wishes of the majority of the people that voted. 
That most definately is not democracy.

Just in the interests of accuracy, Ireland gained concessions like retaining the Irish commissioner, competency over tax rates, abortion, neutrality, and workers’ rights before they accepted Lisbon the 2nd time. (Google it). 

Ireland was the only country who gave their citizens a say in these EU treaties, also Nice 2001. All others just accepted them by act of Parliament. Not giving citizens an input was probably a reason for the growth of Eurroscepticism, UKIP etc. 

Very relevant to the current fiasco because the Irish were not going to accept any deal that would damage their economy or independence. UK seems to have no such reservations. 

Now that UK citizens are aware of the impossibility of delivering what was promised to them in their first vote, just ask them are they still willing to jump off the cliff without a parachute. 

The answer is probably YES...!

Why did southern Ireland want to leave the EU.....(Google it).

Casacymurenespana, I totally agree with comments about democracy and no deal. The political class must listen to, and act on the vote result. It is time for Mrs May to leave and let a committed Brexiter take over. However, for wanting to "hurt the German or French people" is simply not true. It has been the implementation of E.U. directives of the last forty years that has decimated this country. We have been forced to give away everything for the good of the Union, only to sit and watch other countries prosper at our expense. Whether fake news or not, we continually see some foreign minister trying to tell us what they want from this country. It has to stop now, otherwise we will fast become one of these third world countries we so passionately want to help. As for your comment on Nationalism, what is so wrong in having patriotic feelings or pride in ones country.

Hi Vista 70...I think we agree for the most part, even on the point of Pride & Patriotism, however my the point I was trying to put across is we do not want to be perceived as by too Nationalistic, it infers (in my mind anyway) a close mindedness and that is the last thing we want as we venture out into the big, wide world without being shackled to the EU, which is in fact protectionist in many ways.

I would not want to hurt the French, German or indeed closer to our hearts, the Spanish people, who work hard to provide a product or service, they are no different to us wanting to make a living, so why hurt them financially ?....our battle is not with them but the EU machine and the many Leaders who are hiding behind the EU sniping at the UK....

It does grate a little when you read the PM of Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia or any other country in the EU (who are TAKING from the coffers and not contributing) makes some derogatory remarks about the UK leaving...WHEN they have contributed the €millions we have contributed, only then should we listen to what they have to say (little bloody pip squeaks :-) ! )

May should never have been given the role of PM but the Brexiteers in the camp weren`t exactly falling over themselves to take the lead...I would throw Michael Gove in the Tower with the other lot I mentioned, what a snake he has turned out to be.

Good to debate, appreciate it and respect your point of view...!

Anthony

How do you define 3rd world country?  Is it one where the trains get built in Germany, Spain,France and Italy? Where the only steel plants belong to the Germans/Indians? Where the car companies belong to the Japanese, French, Indians and Germans? Where the electrical and water industries belong to hedge funds/foreign investors? Where cruise ships are built in Italy, France and Germany?  Where major hospital construction projects are bankrupt? Where trains don't turn up at all?  Where high streets look like the ghosts of a once prosperous time? Where the Air Force  fly mainly  American aircraft? Have aircraft carriers with no (American) aircraft? Navy supply ships built in Korea?

Is it one where the roads have potholes everywhere?  Where 18,000 beds have vanished from the hospital services?  Where libraries and leisure centres are closing? Where youngsters are left untrained/unskilled or lumbered with debt? Where North Sea oil has been used to push up house prices to astronomical levels to the point where youngsters can't afford to start families? 

Where  education is being privatised and less able kids are being excluded? Where Policing has been steadily run down the NHS structure stealthily sold off, and the remainder run on a shoestring?  Where blocks of foreign owned flats stand empty while beggars lie in the street?  Where  the rich are given generous tax breaks and save their money offshore as the value of the currency drifts steadily down?

Sean95 You haven't answered the most important part of the question.
Why was the second vote accepted and binding but not the first?
You know the answer but can't admit it. Just like the remainer camp, they would 'accept' a second vote, as long as it was to remain.
I have no idea what the result of a second referendum would be but either way it would be a farce.
 The question, remain/leave, was asked.
Like you, the remainers arrogantly believe the voters didn't know what they were voting for. In a way, you are right.
We thought we were voting to leave, not pussy around sending in a grovelling remainer (May), to see how much she could give away. As for the economics, that's not what it's all about.
During the war years, The German rulers attempted to become Europe's masters.
The 'elite' in the UK sent many to certain death to protect their comfy life styles.
Now the Germans are trying to rule Europe by another, more cynical method and our 'elite' are allowing it.
Disgraceful.
We were told there may be a period of hardship.
We still voted to leave.
Not everyone is motivated by greed.
One way to sort out the whole EU charade is to give every member state a referendum.
Will they?
No chance.
They know the result would spell the end of their thieving, lavish lifestyles.