Are the EU negotiators a bunch of bullies - Page 8

Conor wrote on Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:19pm:

That's the spirit Frequent Flyer. If the UK can no longer conquer by force, they can conquer economically, is that it? That attitude will get you a trade deal quick (not!). Make no mistake, the UK want, and need, a trade deal with the EU more than vice versa. My country, Ireland, which you seem t...

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...o want to "bring down" does approx 55% of its global export trade with the current EU. Of that current EU trade, we do approx 20% (or approx 11% of our total global exports) with the UK. In fact we export more to Belgium than we do to the UK. The import figures show we import more from the UK (18%), than we export to the UK (11%), (all % figures are approx). So vis-a-vis Ireland -UK only, the UK may be worse off in a no deal situation than Ireland as regards balance of trade. We will simply source the vehicles, washing machines, TV's (and other goods currently sourced from UK) from Spain, Germany etc. without having to negotiate any new trade deal. I anticipate that Ireland will always honour it's international commitments, incl it's EU commitments, we will not need to be "instructed" or "told" to do so. We will hardly place the remaining 44% of our total exports to the EU at risk just to service the 11% to the UK market, no matter how much we all like, and have friends and family in, the UK. That's a 4:1 ratio for Irish exports to the EU26:UK and hardly needs further explanation, and its currently falling in anticipation of Brexit. I don't know the comparative figures for Spain (but an earlier post suggested that something similar might apply) and while that loss of business (if that occurs) will no doubt hurt Ireland and or Spain, where will the UK replace those goods from? Currently there are no independent UK trade deals (that I know of - though there are some historical arrangements with NZ and other Commonwealth countries - as all current EU members negotiate trade thru EU) so in a no deal exit, WTO rules will apply (to your imported fruit and veg and other imported goods) and that, as far as I can see, will not favour the UK. That situation will not last forever, as trade deals become negotiated with other blocs/countries, but it won't be a quick or easy fix. Better stock up on non-perishable tomatoes. Be careful what you wish for.

None of this is to suggest that the UK should not leave the EU as voted for in 2016, but it would be useful if people did a bit more thinking before spouting. The UK joined the then EEC in 1973 and in the first ever UK referendum in 1975, the UK voted (by 67.2% to 32.8%) to remain in the then EEC. In 2016 the UK voted to leave, so it's 1-1 now for Leave-Remain. If there is a further referendum (and as a democrat I would always be open to ongoing voting such as occurs with council or general elections, as opinions change with time, knowledge and or events) it would not be a second UK referendum on leaving/remaining, it would be a third. If there was a further vote the result is unlikely to change from 2016, but a third vote might be on what type of Brexit to apply. A Soft -vs- Hard Brexit choice rather than a Leave-Remain choice - assuming a withdrawal agreement can be reached and voted upon before the withdrawal deadline happens March 2019? If it occurs, such a vote would at least be on a more informed basis of the pros and cons of Remain-Leave and Soft-Hard Brexit, and there are massive pros and cons for all positions. Another lesson in democracy?

In a no deal (ie hard) Brexit you may have to change your handle from Frequent Flyer, see an earlier post...... just a thought! 

I anticipate that my thoughts will be challenged, perhaps ridiculed, by many. A response is neither requested nor expected but will be considered.  

Sean95 wrote on Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:33pm:

Can't believe that people are being so blind! 

30 mins for each truck as against a few minutes at the moment. Imagine the queue that will build up! UK will have to continue importing food - it'll just cost more.These business people are not imagining this problem. Check out what Rotterdam port is planning for. Check out all the companies who ...

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...have moved their bases to Ireland, including a very prominent Brexiteer. Check out the number of British who have got Irish passports in the last 2 years, legally of course. None of this is good for the UK. As I said you need to read up on some factual stuff as well as believing all the Brexit hype and pie-in-the-sky pub talk. 

Dont reply. Please just check these out. Thanks.

Conor wrote on Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:00pm:

Lewie, Wow, you do have issues. Of course trading % will go up and down (and irrespective of Brexit), my point was not how that might change, but was offered to counter the suggestion of "bringing down" countries, but i guess that one would need to understand the concept of debate, rather than he...

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...ctoring, to engage in a meaningful way. 

Your Nazi references are misguided and so completely out of line and disrespectful to actual Nazi victims, that it not worth responding to, other than to note that now I know that the Nazis were involved in two world wars, I always thought it was WW2 only. Thanks for the update.

First time I heard that there was no such thing as a soft/hard Brexit, I must change my reading material. If there is no half way house between leave & remain, why are the UK government trying to stay wholly or partially in the single market, the aviation union and some other common unions. Maybe I misunderstand that also. "Chequers, you say".

You are correct in that a lot of all this stuff will settle down and life will go on, but that will not be achieved easily by shouting or not understanding (facts or a contary opinion). Is that not one of the stereotyping of the very national socialist party that you are complaining about. Which leads me to my final point...over and out.

UncleAlan wrote on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:01pm:

A different perspective-

Enoch was pre-dated by a few decades with Winston Churchill's Grand-European-Tour Speeches, made throughout the ashes of a war-torn and ravished Europe in 1946/47, drumming-up support for a United Europe from a war-weary and very hesitant France, Germany, Italy and the like! ...

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...

Like every sane adult on the planet, back in 1919, he just could not comprehend the sheer scale of endless carnage that had robbed the World of it's "Flower-of-a-Generation" on the Killing-Fields of WWI, and could not fathom the minds so devoid-of-humanity, behind the Munitions-manufacturers and World-Bankers that had promoted it, and vowed that it should NEVER be allowed to happen again. And so, along with a few like-minds, his thoughts turned to a "United Europe" so that it could NEVER happen again. He thought that it could start with Free-Trade throughout, and the free movement of people, money & goods, all building into a UNITED STATES of EUROPE! -Yes, his very words! HE was very concious that there had been a War in Europe EVERY GENERATION for a Millennia, or more, each successive one losing its bravest & boldest, and that it had to STOP! Time for the constant bickerring to stop, to join forces and present a united front to the World: a United Europe!

The International Bankers, Fantastically wealthy Munitions-manafacturers (now all busy diversifying), and their ilk and clans, had other ideas, of course, and constantly sought to undermine peace-initiatives, trade-deals, international co-operation, the `will-of-the-people' and the like, fostering instead Nationalistic, Separatist, Warlike, lynch-mob-like, Divisionery investment & the promotion & sponsering of any & all anti-social activities, appealing to our basist, most crass, primevil instincts, as they STILL try to do!

Not all opposition to a peaceful World comes from the Evil-Rich, of course, but they DO like to fund I think, noisy nationalistic movements, break-up groups, etc, to entice war, & disruption, dissent & resentment, all to further their own personnal wealth-and-power agendas!

So as a working-class Pensioner, having seen bright ideas all too-often snuffed-out by ill-educated, hasty, opinionated, loud-mouthed, rather than really nasti-people, in their frantic-rush to the bottom of the compost-heap-of-Humanity. It is so sad.

For a thousand years we have suffered government by pompous opinionated arrogant pratts, so it shouldn't really be a surprise in these days of social-media-dumb-down that the World-and-his-wife are queing-up to piss in the communal soup, but it is sad!

Lewie wrote on Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:01pm:

What absolute tosh.
Which bit?
All of it.
We don't need a deal and all this talk of how much each country imports/exports is irrelevant.
We are restricted from trading freely with the rest of the world by the rules of the self elected New Nazi Party EU thieves.
If we walked away ou...

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...r % trading would change around the world, not just with the EU.
WTO rules would apply in the interim, we would in the mean time, be negotiating our own deals (we may be already, if they have any sense at all, I wont hold my breath).
No one expects a pain free transition but that's how it is, a small price to pay to get out of the Mafioso type 'club' that is the EU.
With any luck, our leaving will see the destruction of this attempt for unelected despots to rule.
Those that think this type of behaviour is OK must be Nazi sympathisers for that is what they attempted during two world wars.

The Irish government is instructed and told what to do, you are deluded.

To compare staying in the EEC to staying in the EU is ludicrous.
They have little in common.

There is no such thing as a soft/hard Brexit. If we stay in the EU in any form we have not left.
The clue is in the question, remain/leave, there is no half way house.

As for all the, you wont be able to do this, you can't do that, hype, we've been flying from the UK to the rest of Europe for many decades, well before the formation of the New Nazi Party, the only reason problems could occur is because the NNP want to make everything as awkward as possible.
Many European countries economies are suffering as it is.
Imagine what would happen to resorts in Spain if they stopped their number one customers from travelling there.

It's all scaremongering, pie in the sky by deluded undemocratic politicians.
The disturbing thing is some of the population are still believing these lying morons.