Will spain change its mind...... - Page 36

Goodness me, calm down, take a pill and lie down in a dark room for an hour as it seems you are unwell.  You no absolutely nothing about me or my family at all yet choose to rant like sone lol obey.  For the record, prior to moving to Spain, thankfully many miles from someone like you, some 5 years ago we lived in France full time for 5 years.  Before that I lived and worked in the UAE for 10 years.  As a consequence I did not vote in the BREXIT referendum but as we live in a democracy I did, and do, accept the result of the referendum.  There are some 65 million people, the vast majority of whom have no intention of moving to Spain, or elsewhere for that matter I would imagine, so they voted what they believed to be better for them and the U.K., it’s very obvious that you disagree with the result, that is your prerogative, but to verbally abuse someone you have never met is just down right rude and abusive.  I note that you live in Camposol, thankfully many miles away from our home, so there is absolutely no chance of us ever meeting up, I just pity your neighbours.  ‘Sell up your crap’ I believe it was what you said, great advice so perhaps you should think about doing it.

It’s funny really, all European countries are having mass immigration issues, I guess people who are blinkered do not know how the Spanish feel about this. Many Europeans moved into Spain too, they can work and grow the economy.most brits that live spain and have moved full time will be welcomed, The problem with pre Brexit for spain was people took the mick, people came who were on benefits getting a cheap flight back to sign their benefits cheques. . Now there probably is a better quality of people coming to spain who are prepared to pay into the system. Will have to pay for healthcare and translation. Where the whole purpose for Brexit was to stop free loaders coming the other way. The British government are happy to use taxpayer money to translate many languages. They are happy to be multicultural. Obviously they don’t live in the real towns and see the impact. My point is people who leave England for a better life can support themselves in any other country they go to…. Immigrants that come to Britain are given many perks that working British do not get… The Eu pushed so many laws and laughed at us for being so law abiding. The currency was coming too… Look at the European countries that took the euro they are not as prosperous now.. perhaps go talk to people in all these eu countries. They all will say the same. It’s too expensive and work does not pay.

You really are good for a laugh, many thanks.  I dislike the EU but I do like the various European Nations, hence the reason for living in  France and Spain for the past 10 years, there is a difference between the two.  I repeat,  why not take your own advice and take your obnoxious hatred back to where ere it was you came from.  Strangely enough, in the 5 years we have spent here in Spain, you are the first, and only Brit, I have known to moan, perhaps the problem might just be you?  Go take another good look in the mirror.

Well said Lornski, 

Oh dear, Bugsy has deleted his posts.  Probably a good move.

(Sorry for the delay in replying, been working hard. Still not retired yet).

"The European Union isn’t a friend.
Only narrow minded people will think Brexit was a bad choice."

So, tell us what the real benefits are then, if it's such a good choice. I can only think of a few: a) how it made other EU countries sit up and realise how much better off they are being in the EU than outside it, having taken many things for granted for so long; b) Saving money by avoiding EU regulations on clean rivers, etc. Now we can really dump crap into them, unhindered. After all, nobody really liked having clean rivers anyway; c) I know the ex-Brexit minister Jacob Rees-Mogg has loads of Brexit benefits in mind, but apparently they wont kick in until after 2072. Damn.

Brexit was about sovereignty not anything else.

Was it? I know that's what the people behind Brexit kept touting as a real menace to the UK, but it's such a fluffy, woolly term that can't be quantified. You'd think the UK was helpless faced with Brussels to listen to them, that the UK had no say over laws; etc.
Fact: 1) The UK was part of Brussels, and as big player could get support for many of its own ideologies.that could be applied Europe-wide. This included many laws in the medical field, but the biggest of these was probably Margret Thatcher's drive to make the EU much more liberal, economically speaking. This stopped a lot of protectionism within the EU. It also explains why so many on the far left voted to leave, or at least were not enamoured by it (e.g. Jeremy Corbin), but I digress.
Fact 2) Through the 1990s and 2000s, the UK's voting position on EU laws, as an EU member, was as follows: Voted for: 95%, Abstained: 3%, Against: 2%. The ratio dropped a little once the Cameron government got in, but it remained very high as a vote for EU laws. Not sure how voting in agreement with the vast majority of EU laws makes you subjugated by Brussels.
Fact 3) Around 90% of the time I hear someone say "Oh, you can't do that because of Brussels", they are wrong (see Covid below).

(If anyone is interested I'll post a new message later here on what was really behind Brexit. It'll explain why the Brexiters aren't happy, even though they "won" a very hard Brexit. They seem more depressed about Brexit than Remainers).

Just because it’s impacted free movement doesn’t make it a failure.

Very true. The 4% drop in GDP, the sustained 20% drop in the £'s value on the foreign exchange markets, the extra 3% points added to the inflation rate, the increase in costs and resources to trade with your biggest trading partner, the delay moving forward in getting new drugs and medical equipment,... You're right - it's not just the loss of freedom of movement.

Covid we made our own decisions.

... just like you could when we were in the EU. Sure, it pissed off a lot of EU member states the UK went on their own because they happened to have their own vaccine for that particular pathogen. The EU tried to provide a solution that was EU wide and where no one was left behind, but there was no law actually banning the UK from not adhering to this strategy. Other EU countries went their own way too. While this was a short-lived victory for the UK over the EU (many EU countries caught up and overtook the UK in terms of vaccination rates), it begs the question what will happen when the next pathogen hits and the UK doesn't happen to have a quick in-house solution.

We are now trading outside Europe. We can now see BRICKS are now trading better.

The UK was also trading with BRICS while in the EU, as part of the world's largest trading block. The UK still doesn't have a trade deal with some BRICS countries, over 4 years after leaving the EU. The EU's power in trade deals is impressive. The UK will not get near it unless it gives up substantial ground (e.g. the UK-Australia deal). EU-BRICS

We need to look long term not at the short term.

That's precisely what's worrying me for the UK. I never thought the UK would fall off a cliff after Brexit, it's the long term decline being outside the EU that is a cause of concern. 

Many countries are trapped in the European Union as it’s like a debt they will never clear. Greece, Italy france Germany spain are not doing financially better.

The EU is not a prison. It is a club you can join or leave. Why haven't these countries left then? Every country in the world has been hit by the economic downturn, not least due to COVID. The UK is in a recession at the moment. The forecast 4% drop in GDP is not a Remainer piece of scaremongering. It's this pro-Brexit UK government's own forecast.

The poorer countries take more out then that contribute.

Well, yes. That's the point of the EU. It aims to help the economies and well-being of all its members. Look how much the poorer countries have grown over the decades thanks to being in the EU. Even the UK benefited greatly from this in the early/mid 1970s when it was the "sick man of Europe". It benefits everyone in the long run, even the already rich countries, if all the members are doing well.

The western countries are now failing to maintain themselves. This is why the uprisings are occurring.

I have seen demonstrations. I haven't seen an uprising. And guess what? One of the demonstrators' claims was that EU paperwork for farmers was too complicated. The EU listened and agreed to do something about it.

Back in 2000 I was in spain, the lovely Union decided that the lemon and orange groves would be paid to let the fruit rot, because they could go elsewhere… probably happed to other industries. They have taken the prosperity and moved it elsewhere leaving the country in poverty. It’s now all about taxation.

Genuinely don't know what point you are trying to make here;

A big club would only work if all countries were equal, wages,house prices , food prices. But they are not.

Untrue. You only have to look at the USA and other countries/blocks to see that you don't need to all be similar. Disparities can co-exist. That said, the goal of the EU is to have every member doing well. This will take a long time, and even if the goal is not totally reached, everyone will be better off at least trying.

Tax and vat are different too

Make up your mind! Either the EU is an all-controlling tyrant, centralising and dictating how each country runs things with no sovereignty, or it lets each country deal with its own specificities, like tax rates, within a common framework. You can't have it both ways.

I’m surprised this union hasn’t collapsed already.

Why do Brexiters need the EU to fail, even though the UK has left it? Very strange mindset. Desperate for any straw to grasp at to justify their decision?

People are realising that their home land has lost control,England has self serving politicians that did not make the use of the situation. Point given.

I agree with this to some extent, but why do you believe the EU was to blame? Are people more in control now, over 3-4 years after Brexit?

DH123, I’m not altogether sure that you know what the EU is all about.

That's your opinion. As a company director dealing with the European, UK and global countries, I'll stick my head out and say I know more than most.

Just look around the EU and see the discontent, especially the farmers.

Yes, there is discontent everywhere, in and out of the EU. The EU farmers were heard and some, not all, governments along with the EU are taking action in response.  

Hungry and Poland are constantly at odds with Brussels.

And I'm very glad of this. It confirms my faith in the EU. Poland's government has changed so it's not really an issue, but Hungary's authoritarian government has been on a long road away from democracy, breaking down its institutions and freedom of speech. I'd actually be worried if the EU was not at odds with a regime like Hungary's.

Nation borders are once again being closed and policed.  The EU is so good that neither Norway or Switzerland wish to join. 

I'm genuinely confused as to why any anti-EU supporter would point to Switzerland and Norway. They are two small-population countries that are, for different reasons, are very wealthy. They do not need to join the EU. However, they are aligned to the EU on so many things. Norway, as a member of the EEA, is fully aligned to the EU and has been described as an associate member of the EU. While having no elected representatives in Brussels, it takes on board almost all EU directives (although it can opt out of some), and pays into the EU just like full members. From memory, Norway pays in around 60% of the UK was paying in, per capita. Why would it do that if it thought the EU was so bad?

Well said.

I pay for everything in Spain.

I pay for private health care, no need to as I am ok to go on the system.

I spend my pensions here.

I do not expect Spain to give me anything for free,  ( may be the sun )

I ask for nothing that I cannot pay for.

Thats what immigrants will NOT do coming to the UK.

They want , get, and take everything for free, and the stupid UK government give it to them.

True cost of 10 million pounds a DAY to keep illegal immigrants in the UK, how mad is that.

No wonder the UK is sinking, no wonder the UK true citizens are poor, and struggle, but the government have no guts or back bone to say to them YOU GET NOTHING IF YOU DO NOT PAY FOR IT, SO DO NOT COME.

Sorry but its true.

Very strange how France chucks them out, within 24 hours, as they did last week, and turns a blind eye to them sailing over to the UK.

Just watch now what happens to that girl who is in Syria, that has been stripped of her UK citizenship, and the UK has given over 5.5 million of tax payers money in her legal bills to fight her case to

 come back to the UK.

I bet within 6 months she will arrive by boat on the beach of a UK coast, and claim asylum, stating her life is in danger, and she is of christian faith.

Call me what you like, but it it all true, and based on facts.

Sad, but it is the UK that will have very serious problems in the future, and that future is not far away now.

All my own opinions, but the facts speak for themselves.

Bravo, simply BRAVO!! You have alot more patience than I do. 

As was evident after you deleted your insulting and abusive comments.